23rd October 2018
1) I hope you all enjoyed the Joe Cornish video - A Guide to Composition. Its a new video available through Light & Land and addressed not just composition but also equipment, field craft and post processing. I think it had something to offer to all of us, even the non landscapers amongst us. Good value at around £10.
If you'd like your own copy see here A Guide to Composition with Joe Cornish
If you'd like your own copy see here A Guide to Composition with Joe Cornish
We had a little chat about it after the showing and collectively the things we recalled were:
- Joe's approach to composition: Balance, Depth and Energy. Sounds good to me
- our own approach to composition says something about us personally
- Joe returned to a place many times and explored the location. He would use his iPhone to refine the composition before setting up.
- Joe now uses digital of all sizes - full frame Sony 7R through to the larger formats
- the new item of equipment he used extensively was an umbrella!
- Field craft - Joe had his way of doing things, and i suspect we also have our own. Its important to have this honed down to a fine art
- In post processing the best background colour of the screen is white, since this visually sets the luminance to our eye
- try turning the image upside down to help see the balance
2) Torben and Peter (Wilson) recently attended an LRPS Advisory Day as observers and came back full of enthusiasm. The day was very positive and instructive, and gave much guidance on the range of prints required, and especially the construction of a panel. It is surprising how positioning prints can change the look of the panel, and in fact how just one print can over power the panel. Torben and Peter said they hope to apply next year, and I would encourage other ESIG members to also give it a try.
3) Gerry then got us thinking about image resolution following on from my talk at the last members evening. He showed two images that had both been re-sized from the same original image, but at different dpi (400 and 850 I think) The images did look different, more contrasty, but we couldn't work out the logic of why this should be. Changing the dpi should just change the size of image if it were to be printed. It shouldn't change the appearance of the image. More investigation required, but we felt the difference was due to the way Adobe software saved the image.
4) we then shared some images, with contributions from Malcolm and Mick and viewed the work of two inspirational photographers - see
- Julia Anna Gospodarou, a fine art black and white architectural photographer https://www.juliaannagospodarou.com/ and
- Mandy Disher, a floral and still life photographer https://www.mandydisher.com/
Both produce really excellent work and worth studying more carefully.
- Joe's approach to composition: Balance, Depth and Energy. Sounds good to me
- our own approach to composition says something about us personally
- Joe returned to a place many times and explored the location. He would use his iPhone to refine the composition before setting up.
- Joe now uses digital of all sizes - full frame Sony 7R through to the larger formats
- the new item of equipment he used extensively was an umbrella!
- Field craft - Joe had his way of doing things, and i suspect we also have our own. Its important to have this honed down to a fine art
- In post processing the best background colour of the screen is white, since this visually sets the luminance to our eye
- try turning the image upside down to help see the balance
2) Torben and Peter (Wilson) recently attended an LRPS Advisory Day as observers and came back full of enthusiasm. The day was very positive and instructive, and gave much guidance on the range of prints required, and especially the construction of a panel. It is surprising how positioning prints can change the look of the panel, and in fact how just one print can over power the panel. Torben and Peter said they hope to apply next year, and I would encourage other ESIG members to also give it a try.
3) Gerry then got us thinking about image resolution following on from my talk at the last members evening. He showed two images that had both been re-sized from the same original image, but at different dpi (400 and 850 I think) The images did look different, more contrasty, but we couldn't work out the logic of why this should be. Changing the dpi should just change the size of image if it were to be printed. It shouldn't change the appearance of the image. More investigation required, but we felt the difference was due to the way Adobe software saved the image.
4) we then shared some images, with contributions from Malcolm and Mick and viewed the work of two inspirational photographers - see
- Julia Anna Gospodarou, a fine art black and white architectural photographer https://www.juliaannagospodarou.com/ and
- Mandy Disher, a floral and still life photographer https://www.mandydisher.com/
Both produce really excellent work and worth studying more carefully.
25th Sept 2018
Purpose of the group:
We started with a quick chat about the purpose of the group to be sure everyone is clear and happy. We agreed that we are about the visual side of photography, not the technical, although we are happy to address technical issues as they come up. Our purpose is to:
- Inform our 'seeing eye', and we do this by constantly discussing and viewing the work of 'inspirational' photographers and/or things photographic
- Share and improve own own work, by discussion, illustration and encouragement within the group.
- Encourage members to enter club competitions, external exhibitions and apply for distinctions
Presentations
We had presentations from James, Iain and Gerry:
James gave us a talk on long exposure photography and showed the work of three photographers working in the area - all excellent
- Doug Chinnery See here 8 tips for mastering long exposure photos by Doug Chinnery
- Jay Vulture see Vulture Labs | About
- Micheal Levine see https://www.michaellevin.ca/ (video also worth watching)
- https://www.bwvision.com/ and Julia Anna Gospodarou Black and White Fine Art Photography
James also took us through technical steps in taking these long exposures, which are a bit fiddly. James mentioned that the x10 ND filters all give a colour cast (which I can confirm from my own B&W brand). The OnLandscape site did a very thorough review which I summarise at the end of this email.
Iain, showed us the work of the painter Micheal Smee 'Through the glass darkly'. This was a very interesting series. They resembled the work of Edward Hopper but could also have been the work of a street photographer. Definitely worth a closer look. I couldn't find a web site to link to, but a google search will show some of work under 'images.'
And then Gerry showed us a series of photographs he is working on portraying the 'dark side', or how things might look to a depressed person. It was interesting because their strength was not in any one image but in collection of images creating a mood or emotion. I was taken by how Gerry explored how to use light and dark to reflect mood and how light reflects optimism and dark pessimism.
These three presentations were all very thought provoking and all quite different in intent - abstract, realism (?) and story telling.
Sharing work
We had just four members share and discus their work. Thank you. Let's have more next time.
Smethwick International Photographic Exhibition
We finished up by looking at the Award winners from this year's Smethwick International. As a reminder I've copied a few images below that we liked.
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24th May 2018
Elite Performance and Photography
Our discussion slot this week was a bit left field. I introduced the book 'Bounce' by Matthew Syed and asked if there were any lessons we could learn that were relevant to improving our photography. 'Bounce' addresses the question of where high performance comes from, whether this is all down to natural talent, or if something else going on. Syed argued, with many supporting examples drawn particularly from sport, and music, that there is no such thing as natural talent, and that the major determinants of performance were 1) hours of focused practice (the 10,000 hour rule), 2) opportunity, often in the form of good luck at a young age, that directed a development path towards high performance, and 3) the learned ability to identify patterns (eg the example of receiving a high speed serve in tennis). It seems this line of thought also appears in other books, eg' Outliers', or 'The talent myth'. Our discussion cast doubt on whether talent could be so easily explained, with other factors being thrown into the mix such as motivation, single mindedness, having a target to achieve.
So are there lessons to be learned for our photography? I think we agreed that there are, and they all have to do with 1) working in a determined way towards a target (call this practice, focus, or motivation), 2) opportunity - put yourself into positions where you might get lucky, and 3) and this is one that surprised me, that by looking at the work of other photographers we actually learn to recognise clues in a location that are likely to produce a 'good' images, 'good' being defined in the way that we choose to define it, by our own standards, because there are no absolutes.
I'm sure the world is more complex than this, but I think there are lessons here, and just maybe these will help direct our photography onto better things.
Wildlife and Landscape Photography - Peter Whitehead
Peter gave us a talk on two of his favourite photographers, one wild life and the other Landscape.
The wildlife photographer was Chris Packham. I was a little surprised at this choice, but Peter justified his selection by giving more detail on Chris' background. Chris not only has an encyclopedic knowledge of wildlife, he was also trained as a wildlife photographer and practised as such in his early career. Peter has met Chris on Wildlife workshops and can vouch for his skills and his ability in finding the shot that everyone else seems to miss. A good choice.
Peter's Landscape photographer was Bruce Percy, and is a choice I would fully support. Absolutely one of the best around at the moment, and definitely worth looking at his web site - see https://www.brucepercy.co.uk/
Shared work
We ended with a number of our group showing their images drawn together over this last year. There was definitely some nice work and certainly definite signs of significant improvement over the year. Let's keep it going.
and finally
we mentioned a couple of exhibitions that are now open for entry
Also the London Salon of Photography Exhibition is on show at the Burt Gallery opening 11 July, I'll try to organise a trip to visit.
Our discussion slot this week was a bit left field. I introduced the book 'Bounce' by Matthew Syed and asked if there were any lessons we could learn that were relevant to improving our photography. 'Bounce' addresses the question of where high performance comes from, whether this is all down to natural talent, or if something else going on. Syed argued, with many supporting examples drawn particularly from sport, and music, that there is no such thing as natural talent, and that the major determinants of performance were 1) hours of focused practice (the 10,000 hour rule), 2) opportunity, often in the form of good luck at a young age, that directed a development path towards high performance, and 3) the learned ability to identify patterns (eg the example of receiving a high speed serve in tennis). It seems this line of thought also appears in other books, eg' Outliers', or 'The talent myth'. Our discussion cast doubt on whether talent could be so easily explained, with other factors being thrown into the mix such as motivation, single mindedness, having a target to achieve.
So are there lessons to be learned for our photography? I think we agreed that there are, and they all have to do with 1) working in a determined way towards a target (call this practice, focus, or motivation), 2) opportunity - put yourself into positions where you might get lucky, and 3) and this is one that surprised me, that by looking at the work of other photographers we actually learn to recognise clues in a location that are likely to produce a 'good' images, 'good' being defined in the way that we choose to define it, by our own standards, because there are no absolutes.
I'm sure the world is more complex than this, but I think there are lessons here, and just maybe these will help direct our photography onto better things.
Wildlife and Landscape Photography - Peter Whitehead
Peter gave us a talk on two of his favourite photographers, one wild life and the other Landscape.
The wildlife photographer was Chris Packham. I was a little surprised at this choice, but Peter justified his selection by giving more detail on Chris' background. Chris not only has an encyclopedic knowledge of wildlife, he was also trained as a wildlife photographer and practised as such in his early career. Peter has met Chris on Wildlife workshops and can vouch for his skills and his ability in finding the shot that everyone else seems to miss. A good choice.
Peter's Landscape photographer was Bruce Percy, and is a choice I would fully support. Absolutely one of the best around at the moment, and definitely worth looking at his web site - see https://www.brucepercy.co.uk/
Shared work
We ended with a number of our group showing their images drawn together over this last year. There was definitely some nice work and certainly definite signs of significant improvement over the year. Let's keep it going.
and finally
we mentioned a couple of exhibitions that are now open for entry
- the PAGB 'Masters of Print' - PAGB masters of print | The Photographic Alliance of Great Britain
- the Monochrome Awards Monochrome Photography Awards - International Black and White Photography Contest - Home
- Landscape Photographer of the Year Take a view - Landscape Photographer of the Year
Also the London Salon of Photography Exhibition is on show at the Burt Gallery opening 11 July, I'll try to organise a trip to visit.
24th April 2018
14 lessons Elliott Erwitt has taught me about street photography
This is another article by Eric Kim. But firstly, if you're not familiar with Elliot Erwitt, see Magnum Photos Photographer Portfolio Well worth a look. We picked out a couple of the 14 lessons which seemed more important or relevant.
- Don't plan too much. Be a 'Flaneur' , i.e. someone who walks around a little aimlessly, and lets the photographs find them. This spontaneity seems to go against the idea we discussed last time by Guy Tal which argued for more planning and previsualisation. Horses for courses, I guess. I can understand both. I'm definitely moving towards the previsualisation end of the spectrum
- Don't take things too seriously. Its all a bit of fun. Erwitt is well know for the humour he brings to his photos, especially with the dogs.
- Focus on content over composition. This generated some discussion. Content meaning an interesting subject (fighting tigers rather than sleeping mice) whereas composition has to do with line and form, aesthetics and beauty. James challenges the whole idea by saying they can't be distinguished. I think it varies by genre. I can see the distinction working for street photography, portrait, sport and wildlife, maybe less so for 'fine arty' images. .
- Work on your skills of observation. I think we all agreed with this one and felt it was something Erwitt was very good at. But having said that there was a sense that he saw particular types of composition and looked out for them, eg, the juxtapositions, (image of heron and standing tap), faces being obscured (image of dog on lap of owner), use of mirrors (image of couple kissing seen in car wing mirror). He clearly has a set of templates that work for him Good idea?
- Make a book(s). Again, I think we all agreed with this one. It certainly strikes a cord with me, and is always on my new years resolution list.
Sandra Roeken
David introduced us to an interesting fine art photographer, Sandra Roeken. Sandra produces some very atmospheric images that have been significantly enhanced in Photoshop by use of textured layers and colour adjustments. See her work on Art Finder here (including before and after images) https://www.artfinder.com/sandra-roeken#/! , or examples here sandra roeken photography - Google Search
Thanks David, we look forward to seeing some of yours.
Gavin Hoey
Torben gave us a whistle stop tour of the prolific Gavin Hoey. Torben is a great fan of Gavin, and understandably so. Gavin is particularly well known for his instruction videos which can be found here on Adorama: https://www.adorama.com/alc/host/gavin-hoey or here on YouTube Gavin Hoey
And finally
We looked though acceptances on the web sites of various exhibitions, including the London Salon (where I've just learned I have two acceptances this year - very pleased). It really worthwhile reviewing these exhibition images. I'm sure it helps expand our visual awareness and open us up to new ideas and inspiration - and that's what we're all about in the ESIG.
This is another article by Eric Kim. But firstly, if you're not familiar with Elliot Erwitt, see Magnum Photos Photographer Portfolio Well worth a look. We picked out a couple of the 14 lessons which seemed more important or relevant.
- Don't plan too much. Be a 'Flaneur' , i.e. someone who walks around a little aimlessly, and lets the photographs find them. This spontaneity seems to go against the idea we discussed last time by Guy Tal which argued for more planning and previsualisation. Horses for courses, I guess. I can understand both. I'm definitely moving towards the previsualisation end of the spectrum
- Don't take things too seriously. Its all a bit of fun. Erwitt is well know for the humour he brings to his photos, especially with the dogs.
- Focus on content over composition. This generated some discussion. Content meaning an interesting subject (fighting tigers rather than sleeping mice) whereas composition has to do with line and form, aesthetics and beauty. James challenges the whole idea by saying they can't be distinguished. I think it varies by genre. I can see the distinction working for street photography, portrait, sport and wildlife, maybe less so for 'fine arty' images. .
- Work on your skills of observation. I think we all agreed with this one and felt it was something Erwitt was very good at. But having said that there was a sense that he saw particular types of composition and looked out for them, eg, the juxtapositions, (image of heron and standing tap), faces being obscured (image of dog on lap of owner), use of mirrors (image of couple kissing seen in car wing mirror). He clearly has a set of templates that work for him Good idea?
- Make a book(s). Again, I think we all agreed with this one. It certainly strikes a cord with me, and is always on my new years resolution list.
Sandra Roeken
David introduced us to an interesting fine art photographer, Sandra Roeken. Sandra produces some very atmospheric images that have been significantly enhanced in Photoshop by use of textured layers and colour adjustments. See her work on Art Finder here (including before and after images) https://www.artfinder.com/sandra-roeken#/! , or examples here sandra roeken photography - Google Search
Thanks David, we look forward to seeing some of yours.
Gavin Hoey
Torben gave us a whistle stop tour of the prolific Gavin Hoey. Torben is a great fan of Gavin, and understandably so. Gavin is particularly well known for his instruction videos which can be found here on Adorama: https://www.adorama.com/alc/host/gavin-hoey or here on YouTube Gavin Hoey
And finally
We looked though acceptances on the web sites of various exhibitions, including the London Salon (where I've just learned I have two acceptances this year - very pleased). It really worthwhile reviewing these exhibition images. I'm sure it helps expand our visual awareness and open us up to new ideas and inspiration - and that's what we're all about in the ESIG.
27th March 2018
The Guy Tal article got us thinking on a higher plane. Do we have, or should we have a concept in mind when we take a photograph? Guy argues that we should buts adds that this has nothing to do with technique or composition, but is all about being clear on what we wish to communicate in the photograph. The alternative being to take an image that may have visual impact, but has nothing to say. Umm tough one. This argument certainly can claim the intellectual high ground but how does this work in practice, and does it apply to all photographs we take? I think the views of the group were mixed, and if I were to summarise I'd say we agreed, but not for all images.
Like so many things, it all depends. We could write a whole essay on this. Creating visually beautiful images is not to be dismissed, its a very worthwhile thing to do. And if we wish to communicate then the communication itself must be about something worth communicating. Just saying something trivial doesn't really count. It seems to me that all photographs should have impact, otherwise they will be quickly passed over. Its a real bonus if they also communicate something of interest.
Actually I'd like to replace the word 'Concept' in Guy's article with 'Intent'. I think 'intent' provides far more focus and direction .... or maybe I'm just playing with words.
This discussion led neatly into Iain's presentation and video interview with the urban photographer Nick Turpin and the 'Night Bus' series. See Nick turpin night bus - Google Search I think we all were impressed with the beauty of the images taken through a steamed up window of the night bus of people journeying home from work. They were visually exciting, impressionistic in style, but they also communicated something about people's behaviour. Nick said in the interview he takes images of 'the way we live our lives'. This seems to me to provide a direction for his photography, the 'concept' in Guy Tal's terms. I was also struck by something he said about how, as the project evolved, it became a study of behaviour in that short period of time when people are neither at work or at home, in a kind of in between state, alone but with others. Often working on a project in such a focused way reveals insights that could not have been seen at the start.
Anyway, enough of this airy fairy stuff.....
In the second half of the meeting I was pleased to see more of you clocking up exhibition acceptances and some of you within touching distance of obtaining the BPE1 award. Excellent progress over the year.
And finally the images shown by Torben from the PAGB print final, and also the acceptances from one of the exhibitions gave us a good feel for the variety and quality of subject matter that gets accepted into exhibitions. Seeing these will over time definitely improve our own perception and judgement and unavoidably influence our own photography.
Like so many things, it all depends. We could write a whole essay on this. Creating visually beautiful images is not to be dismissed, its a very worthwhile thing to do. And if we wish to communicate then the communication itself must be about something worth communicating. Just saying something trivial doesn't really count. It seems to me that all photographs should have impact, otherwise they will be quickly passed over. Its a real bonus if they also communicate something of interest.
Actually I'd like to replace the word 'Concept' in Guy's article with 'Intent'. I think 'intent' provides far more focus and direction .... or maybe I'm just playing with words.
This discussion led neatly into Iain's presentation and video interview with the urban photographer Nick Turpin and the 'Night Bus' series. See Nick turpin night bus - Google Search I think we all were impressed with the beauty of the images taken through a steamed up window of the night bus of people journeying home from work. They were visually exciting, impressionistic in style, but they also communicated something about people's behaviour. Nick said in the interview he takes images of 'the way we live our lives'. This seems to me to provide a direction for his photography, the 'concept' in Guy Tal's terms. I was also struck by something he said about how, as the project evolved, it became a study of behaviour in that short period of time when people are neither at work or at home, in a kind of in between state, alone but with others. Often working on a project in such a focused way reveals insights that could not have been seen at the start.
Anyway, enough of this airy fairy stuff.....
In the second half of the meeting I was pleased to see more of you clocking up exhibition acceptances and some of you within touching distance of obtaining the BPE1 award. Excellent progress over the year.
And finally the images shown by Torben from the PAGB print final, and also the acceptances from one of the exhibitions gave us a good feel for the variety and quality of subject matter that gets accepted into exhibitions. Seeing these will over time definitely improve our own perception and judgement and unavoidably influence our own photography.
27th February 2018
Martin Parr
Our look at Martin Parr left most of us a bit baffled. He attracts such great international acclaim, but as a group we struggled to understand most of his images. What is it that we don't 'get'? The answer has something to do with what he is sets out to do with his photography compared to ourselves. He's a social documentary photographer. He seems to focus on class differences, setting out to record ans exaggerate people's behaviour. I found a quote of his saying that over the years his photography has evolved ' from from romantic nostalgia to social criticism'. I didn't find any reference to the aesthetics of the images, so no pretty pictures. He works in a different 'bubble' to club photographers. There's a nice interview with him which throws some light onto this. See Ordinary lives, extraordinary photographs
However, I thought the '10 things to learn from Martin Parr' was relevant to us. I particularly picked up on 1) working in sets of images, which is really how Parr's work should be viewed, 2) making a statement with our image. For Parr, this is statement about society, but the point raises the question of whether our own images have a statement to make. Worth thinking about. 3) Be Obsessive, take lots of photos, good ones are hard to come by, and 4) find the extraordinary in the ordinary (I like this thought). If you're interested in comparing Parr with other recognised street photographers try googling the following. Some big names from the past: Walker Evans, Robert Frank, Brassai, Bill Brandt, and the most famous of all Cartier Bresson. Current day: Dougie Wallace, Nick Turpin.
Thanks to Vaughn for suggesting and leading the session, and David for providing support.
Peter Wilson
Peter described the project he is currently working on in his home studio. Following success in the last competition with the 'Film Noir' style gangster image, Peter is now creating similarly styled image of 'The Deadline' showing a newspaper editor working at his desk with the deadline just minutes away. What is impressive is the single minded focus Peter has applied in creating the one image, working over the last month on lighting set up and sourcing period props. Well done Peter.
Exhibition successes
I was really encouraged by the number of members that have taken up the challenge of entering the BPE and FIAP exhibitions, and the number of acceptances that have been gained. Excellent. There were clearly some images that always got accepted, some that never did, and a large group in the middle that some times did and some times didn't. (I think Martin Parr would be in the 'never did' group, but he works in a different 'bubble'!). REQUEST: could you please send a copy of all your acceptances and the exhibition to James (j.cooke@ntlworld.com) to be included on the web site. I want other members to see what we're achieving, and to create a record we can track over time.
Fantastic Light
Finally we looked at, and added to the images put forward for the next round of the CCOTY competition where the subject is 'Fantastic Light' We acted as selectors and called out our scores and I think there was a kind of consensus on our preferences. The selection committee meets at the end of this week. Fingers crossed for a good result.
Our look at Martin Parr left most of us a bit baffled. He attracts such great international acclaim, but as a group we struggled to understand most of his images. What is it that we don't 'get'? The answer has something to do with what he is sets out to do with his photography compared to ourselves. He's a social documentary photographer. He seems to focus on class differences, setting out to record ans exaggerate people's behaviour. I found a quote of his saying that over the years his photography has evolved ' from from romantic nostalgia to social criticism'. I didn't find any reference to the aesthetics of the images, so no pretty pictures. He works in a different 'bubble' to club photographers. There's a nice interview with him which throws some light onto this. See Ordinary lives, extraordinary photographs
However, I thought the '10 things to learn from Martin Parr' was relevant to us. I particularly picked up on 1) working in sets of images, which is really how Parr's work should be viewed, 2) making a statement with our image. For Parr, this is statement about society, but the point raises the question of whether our own images have a statement to make. Worth thinking about. 3) Be Obsessive, take lots of photos, good ones are hard to come by, and 4) find the extraordinary in the ordinary (I like this thought). If you're interested in comparing Parr with other recognised street photographers try googling the following. Some big names from the past: Walker Evans, Robert Frank, Brassai, Bill Brandt, and the most famous of all Cartier Bresson. Current day: Dougie Wallace, Nick Turpin.
Thanks to Vaughn for suggesting and leading the session, and David for providing support.
Peter Wilson
Peter described the project he is currently working on in his home studio. Following success in the last competition with the 'Film Noir' style gangster image, Peter is now creating similarly styled image of 'The Deadline' showing a newspaper editor working at his desk with the deadline just minutes away. What is impressive is the single minded focus Peter has applied in creating the one image, working over the last month on lighting set up and sourcing period props. Well done Peter.
Exhibition successes
I was really encouraged by the number of members that have taken up the challenge of entering the BPE and FIAP exhibitions, and the number of acceptances that have been gained. Excellent. There were clearly some images that always got accepted, some that never did, and a large group in the middle that some times did and some times didn't. (I think Martin Parr would be in the 'never did' group, but he works in a different 'bubble'!). REQUEST: could you please send a copy of all your acceptances and the exhibition to James (j.cooke@ntlworld.com) to be included on the web site. I want other members to see what we're achieving, and to create a record we can track over time.
Fantastic Light
Finally we looked at, and added to the images put forward for the next round of the CCOTY competition where the subject is 'Fantastic Light' We acted as selectors and called out our scores and I think there was a kind of consensus on our preferences. The selection committee meets at the end of this week. Fingers crossed for a good result.
30th January 2018
For those that were unable to attend we spent the evening acting as a selection committee for next week's Border Skirmish and the forthcoming CACC competition. We looked at all the prints submitted my members, grouped them by individual, and 'held back' one or two from each to go forward to final selection. In every sense we were acting like judges and were faced with all the decisions and choices that judges face. Except we were able to discuss and share what we thought, and compare notes.
I thought a number of things emerged during the evening and provided good lessons for us all:
Firstly it was interesting how it was easy to comment on some images, good and bad, because there was so much to say. I'm thinking of Richard Gibbs' 'The Conversation', Peter Wilson's 'Gangster' (can't remember correct name) and Peter Whitehead's tiger, but there were other examples. Comments came out thick and fast. But for other images they just didn't. For some there was all but silence. And whilst its hard to define exactly why that was we can all recognise images that fall into either category. We as individuals, immediately respond to an image and make a judgement on them, either clearly good or not so good, like it or don't like it, and find them easy to comment on. Others fall some where in the middle, neither good or bad, and constructive comments are harder to find. I exaggerate bit but you see my point. But understanding this does help with our own work. Its also interesting that its not always easy to make that judgement about our own images. We get so wrapped up in them that we sometimes can't see what they really are. Maybe that's why some photographers make their images, and then leave untouched for a month before coming back to them.
The other thing I noticed was that not everyone liked, or disliked the same images. When we were voting to select an image rarely did we get more than half the group in favour, and usually it was less (there were exceptions). What does this tell us? Well for me it says that there is no objective measure of what makes a good or bad image, or a better or worse image. There are some pretty strong fundamentals - clear subjects, strong compositions, impact etc, - but assuming these are in place, there is still great variability in what one person prefers compared with another. Its down to our individual way of seeing. How can you objectively compare between a wild life image. a portrait, a landscape, or a street shot. Can't do it. This is why different judges can score the same image so differently.
And then at the end of the evening Peter Wilson opened up the whole subject of whether we are taking images to please the judges or to please ourselves. To answer this by saying we do it to please ourselves, for our own self expression, takes the moral high ground. But I think its more complex. We all like to do well in life, we all like to win when we can, and we all like to earn the respect of our peers. Winning competitions or getting acceptances at exhibitions plays into this. Where you sit on the scale between pure self expression or 'win at all costs' is a personal choice. I suspect most of us sit somewhere in the middle. Trying to please the judges is a risky approach but might just have the unforeseen consequence of encouraging new approaches to photography. Alternatively it might stop you finding your own way of doing things. The choice is yours.
Anyway, I hope you at least enjoyed the evening and took away something that will help shape and even improve your photography.
A couple more exhibition dates for you:
Southampton Closes 4th Feb http://www.southamptoninternationalexhibition.co.uk/ .This is a FIAP exhibition
Cheltenham Closes 2nd April . Cheltenham International Salon of Photography 2018 . This is also FIAP
London Salon Closes 15th April 2018 Entry Information - The London Salon of Photography . This is an independent exhibition and has a different feel from BPE or FIAP. Take a look at past acceptances. Prints only and very prestigious.
The next ESIG will be on 27th February. I'll send out an email reminder beforehand, which hopefully this time you will all receive.
I thought a number of things emerged during the evening and provided good lessons for us all:
Firstly it was interesting how it was easy to comment on some images, good and bad, because there was so much to say. I'm thinking of Richard Gibbs' 'The Conversation', Peter Wilson's 'Gangster' (can't remember correct name) and Peter Whitehead's tiger, but there were other examples. Comments came out thick and fast. But for other images they just didn't. For some there was all but silence. And whilst its hard to define exactly why that was we can all recognise images that fall into either category. We as individuals, immediately respond to an image and make a judgement on them, either clearly good or not so good, like it or don't like it, and find them easy to comment on. Others fall some where in the middle, neither good or bad, and constructive comments are harder to find. I exaggerate bit but you see my point. But understanding this does help with our own work. Its also interesting that its not always easy to make that judgement about our own images. We get so wrapped up in them that we sometimes can't see what they really are. Maybe that's why some photographers make their images, and then leave untouched for a month before coming back to them.
The other thing I noticed was that not everyone liked, or disliked the same images. When we were voting to select an image rarely did we get more than half the group in favour, and usually it was less (there were exceptions). What does this tell us? Well for me it says that there is no objective measure of what makes a good or bad image, or a better or worse image. There are some pretty strong fundamentals - clear subjects, strong compositions, impact etc, - but assuming these are in place, there is still great variability in what one person prefers compared with another. Its down to our individual way of seeing. How can you objectively compare between a wild life image. a portrait, a landscape, or a street shot. Can't do it. This is why different judges can score the same image so differently.
And then at the end of the evening Peter Wilson opened up the whole subject of whether we are taking images to please the judges or to please ourselves. To answer this by saying we do it to please ourselves, for our own self expression, takes the moral high ground. But I think its more complex. We all like to do well in life, we all like to win when we can, and we all like to earn the respect of our peers. Winning competitions or getting acceptances at exhibitions plays into this. Where you sit on the scale between pure self expression or 'win at all costs' is a personal choice. I suspect most of us sit somewhere in the middle. Trying to please the judges is a risky approach but might just have the unforeseen consequence of encouraging new approaches to photography. Alternatively it might stop you finding your own way of doing things. The choice is yours.
Anyway, I hope you at least enjoyed the evening and took away something that will help shape and even improve your photography.
A couple more exhibition dates for you:
Southampton Closes 4th Feb http://www.southamptoninternationalexhibition.co.uk/ .This is a FIAP exhibition
Cheltenham Closes 2nd April . Cheltenham International Salon of Photography 2018 . This is also FIAP
London Salon Closes 15th April 2018 Entry Information - The London Salon of Photography . This is an independent exhibition and has a different feel from BPE or FIAP. Take a look at past acceptances. Prints only and very prestigious.
The next ESIG will be on 27th February. I'll send out an email reminder beforehand, which hopefully this time you will all receive.
28th November 2017
A few jottings from our meeting earlier this week:
1. We shared our views on what makes a 'good' image, but prefaced our discussion with two important points. Firstly, we challenged whether this is even a valid question ask. If art could be defined so easily then we'd all know about it and we'd all be taking great photographs. So we all agreed that it can't be but there are at least some good working practices that are likely to work well and would be worth trying to express. Secondly, what is regarded as a 'good' photograph depends on where it is being shown. In the camera club world there is definitely a 'type' of image that does well, but move outside, to say the contemporary galleries and the work is completely different. The camera club world is largely about visual impact, whereas contemporary photography is more about the message being conveyed. We illustrated this by comparing the 'People' award winners from the Winchester National Exhibition with the portraits in the Taylor Wessing Portrait Awards - chalk and cheese. This is also true even within the enthusiast photographic world. Compare the BPE/FIAP exhibition entries with say The London Salon. There is a distinct difference in style. And even between the RPS International Print Exhibition and the RPS International Projected Image exhibition. You would have thought these would be similar but the prints exhibition is more like what you would see in a contemporary gallery, and the dpi more like the BPE/FIAP exhibitions. So the message is .... you've got to know your market.
So, what emerged from our discussion. The image characteristics we identified which help stack the odds in our favour are:
2. I challenged you all to enter one of the BPE/FIAP exhibitions and fingers crossed, get accepted. Some of you agreed willingly, some a bit reluctantly. But I encourage all of you to have a go. Peter Whitehead asked whether it is allowed to enter the same image in different exhibitions and it most certainly is.
Here's the link to the BPE exhibition list (http://www.britishphotographicexhibitions.org.uk/index.php/list-of-exhibitions), and here's the FIAP (http://patronages.fiap.net/salons.html). These aren't always completely up to date, so link through the the actually exhibition site to be sure
3. We showed our images and discussed them all at length- a useful process from which we all gain.
Dries' image of New York prompted me the think of Julia Anna Gospodarou - see Julia Anna Gospodarou Black and White Fine Art Photography - they are striking. Also Gill's image of the cat made me think of Tim Flach annimal studies, also stunning - see Tim Flach . Please take a look.
Our next meeting will now be on 30 January next year, so plenty of time to think about our work and come up with some new, or reworked images.
1. We shared our views on what makes a 'good' image, but prefaced our discussion with two important points. Firstly, we challenged whether this is even a valid question ask. If art could be defined so easily then we'd all know about it and we'd all be taking great photographs. So we all agreed that it can't be but there are at least some good working practices that are likely to work well and would be worth trying to express. Secondly, what is regarded as a 'good' photograph depends on where it is being shown. In the camera club world there is definitely a 'type' of image that does well, but move outside, to say the contemporary galleries and the work is completely different. The camera club world is largely about visual impact, whereas contemporary photography is more about the message being conveyed. We illustrated this by comparing the 'People' award winners from the Winchester National Exhibition with the portraits in the Taylor Wessing Portrait Awards - chalk and cheese. This is also true even within the enthusiast photographic world. Compare the BPE/FIAP exhibition entries with say The London Salon. There is a distinct difference in style. And even between the RPS International Print Exhibition and the RPS International Projected Image exhibition. You would have thought these would be similar but the prints exhibition is more like what you would see in a contemporary gallery, and the dpi more like the BPE/FIAP exhibitions. So the message is .... you've got to know your market.
So, what emerged from our discussion. The image characteristics we identified which help stack the odds in our favour are:
- Having a clear subject, so the viewer knows where to look
- Lighting which plays a key role, be this strong and dramatic or soft and subtle
- Subject interest. The more interesting or unusual the subject the more likely it is to be liked - remember the lady with the cigar.
- Lines and shapes - diagonal lines create energy, horizontal or vertical lines create calmness
- Eyes are always important in portraits
- Balance is important, whether this be size and shapes or objects, colour across the image, or light/dark tones.
2. I challenged you all to enter one of the BPE/FIAP exhibitions and fingers crossed, get accepted. Some of you agreed willingly, some a bit reluctantly. But I encourage all of you to have a go. Peter Whitehead asked whether it is allowed to enter the same image in different exhibitions and it most certainly is.
Here's the link to the BPE exhibition list (http://www.britishphotographicexhibitions.org.uk/index.php/list-of-exhibitions), and here's the FIAP (http://patronages.fiap.net/salons.html). These aren't always completely up to date, so link through the the actually exhibition site to be sure
3. We showed our images and discussed them all at length- a useful process from which we all gain.
Dries' image of New York prompted me the think of Julia Anna Gospodarou - see Julia Anna Gospodarou Black and White Fine Art Photography - they are striking. Also Gill's image of the cat made me think of Tim Flach annimal studies, also stunning - see Tim Flach . Please take a look.
Our next meeting will now be on 30 January next year, so plenty of time to think about our work and come up with some new, or reworked images.
31st October 2017
We had a good discussion about the Rafael Rojas paper and what happens after we all become 'Universal Photographers'. Dries has since sent me a link which gives a related argument - see https://fstoppers.com/education/theres-more-life-photographic-technical-perfection-201691 . Also Iain showed us the work of three photographers all of which gained approving nods from us.
The links to the web sites are here:
www.UMBERTOVERDOLIVA.it
www.photomichaelwolf.com
www.aleksykondratyev.com
And now a challenge ...... Your Club needs you!
I mentioned at the end of the meeting that it wouldn't take much to significantly improve our performance in the external competitions we enter as a club. We have been doing better than we might reasonably expect by getting into the finals of major competitions, but then we end up somewhere in the middle or the bottom half of the results. So we need a way of 'upping our game . The members of ESIG represent the most likely members of HPS to deliver on this. So I invite you to actively work on producing images that are of exhibition standard. Don't be shy, this is a journey I want to take you on, and I see this as being entirely consistent with our parallel aim of improving our own personal photography, they go hand in hand.
I plan to find time at each ESIG meeting to review potential exhibition images, so please bring along your work to share and for us to discuss. Try to produce something for every meeting. The usual types of image that appear in exhibitions are well known to us - People (Street, Studio, Portrait,), Landscape, Sport, Natural History, 'digital art', but anything goes. Also think about entering this work into the BPE or FIAP exhibitions and share the results (links to the list of exhibitions are on the ESIG page of the HPS web site - Exhibitions).
The following links are examples of accepted images in recent BPE exhibitions and are good indication of the standard we need to aim for:
Winchester WNE Galleries Page 2017 - Winchester Photographic Society
Dingwall Dingwall Camera Club | Dingwall 2017
The links to the web sites are here:
www.UMBERTOVERDOLIVA.it
www.photomichaelwolf.com
www.aleksykondratyev.com
And now a challenge ...... Your Club needs you!
I mentioned at the end of the meeting that it wouldn't take much to significantly improve our performance in the external competitions we enter as a club. We have been doing better than we might reasonably expect by getting into the finals of major competitions, but then we end up somewhere in the middle or the bottom half of the results. So we need a way of 'upping our game . The members of ESIG represent the most likely members of HPS to deliver on this. So I invite you to actively work on producing images that are of exhibition standard. Don't be shy, this is a journey I want to take you on, and I see this as being entirely consistent with our parallel aim of improving our own personal photography, they go hand in hand.
I plan to find time at each ESIG meeting to review potential exhibition images, so please bring along your work to share and for us to discuss. Try to produce something for every meeting. The usual types of image that appear in exhibitions are well known to us - People (Street, Studio, Portrait,), Landscape, Sport, Natural History, 'digital art', but anything goes. Also think about entering this work into the BPE or FIAP exhibitions and share the results (links to the list of exhibitions are on the ESIG page of the HPS web site - Exhibitions).
The following links are examples of accepted images in recent BPE exhibitions and are good indication of the standard we need to aim for:
Winchester WNE Galleries Page 2017 - Winchester Photographic Society
Dingwall Dingwall Camera Club | Dingwall 2017